Para Gonzalo Martner, economista, el acuerdo constitucional suscrito el lunes supone para la izquierda la meta de aunar 3/5 de las voluntades para cristalizar el estado social y democrático de derechos diseñado por la Convención Constitucional. Sin embargo, el principal enemigo de ese objetivo es que “a la izquierda se le olvida que la derecha nos ganó la elección de ambas cámaras el 2021, que Kast ganó la primera vuelta y que, siendo un hombre de perfil fascista, alcanzó 45% en segunda vuelta”.
Edison Ortiz
El Regionalista conversó con el economista que, sin ejercer ningún cargo público, está siempre presente en los medios. De familia de hombres públicos –su abuelo fue rector de la Universidad de Chile y su padre ministro director de Odeplan de Salvador Allende–, hoy dirige el magister en Gerencia y Políticas Públicas de la USACH, donde logró reunir a un equipo variopinto y con distintas miradas sobre las políticas públicas. Colaborador permanente de este medio, hoy nos entrega su visión sobre el acuerdo constitucional firmado durante la semana y que ha generado mucha polémica y debate.
Fabiola Campillay es la más alta mayoría en las elecciones senatoriales y, sin embargo, no fue convocada al acuerdo. En cambio, Cristián Warnken, con cero votos no solo firmó, sino también condicionó el acuerdo. ¿Qué te parece eso?
Insólito. Esa mesa la firmó incluso hasta UNIR. Lo que pasa es que Campillay es independiente y por otro lado representa y se sitúa en otra lógica. Ella representa la parte más activa de la rebelión de octubre. Tiene una dedicación casi exclusiva al tema de derechos humanos y generalmente vota en contra de la mayoría de las iniciativas. La última fue el presupuesto.
Warnken en cambio, es representante de El Mercurio y parte de una acción colectiva, impulsada por este medio, desde la cual se intenta esconder el interés real. Lo suyo es pura manipulación de un supuesto personaje con pasado de izquierda, que no ha podido comprobarse, a través del cual se intenta fulminar a la izquierda.
¿Qué opinas de la introducción de “los especialistas” en el entramado constitucional?
¿Especialistas de qué? Los asuntos públicos son de interés general. Aquí lo que se hizo a través de la teoría de “los especialistas” es quitarle a la política su naturaleza: el debate público entre todos y todas, su rol en la polis. Una discusión que lleva dos mil años y que ya estaba presente entre los griegos. Recuerda que en algún momento ellos incluso llegan a elegir por sorteo a sus autoridades dado que, en la ciudad, en la urbe, había ciudadanos con mayor poder económico que otros y eso podía distorsionar la democracia. Eso, incluso lo hizo Macron hace dos años con la convención medioambiental y también lo hicieron en Islandia. Es un debate permanente esto de la igualdad y eso lo estamos viviendo intensamente en nuestro país entre una oligarquía que quiere secuestrar la democracia en manos de “expertos suyos” o si no, nosotros somos capaces de nivelar un poco la cancha.
Enfrentarse en el plano democrático.
¿Qué piensas del acuerdo suscrito entre el oficialismo y la oposición?
Este es un acuerdo que expresa muy bien la correlación de fuerzas existentes en el país. Con una derecha que tiene la mitad del parlamento, con un Partido de la Gente (PDG), que va y viene y que está reforzado por el triunfo del 4 de septiembre. No hay que olvidar que Kast fue primera mayoría en primera vuelta y que alcanzó el 45% en segunda, a pesar de su declarado estilo neofascista, que celebra el régimen de Pinochet y que no esconde su opción por “apalear” gente de ser necesario.
Ante ese escenario tenías dos posibilidades: el estilo Llaitul y enfrentar al Estado, y la otra, optar por enfrentarse en el plano democrático, con dos opciones: someterse a los designios de nuestra oligarquía y “sus expertos”, o dar la pelea por nivelar la cancha de la democracia.
Yo creo que la disputa fue buena ya que lo que quería la derecha era que no hubiese ciudadanía, hay 50 que serán electos, aceptaron algunas “challas” y fue un error, pero si alcanzas los 3/5 puedes poner lo que quieres en la nueva constitución, que es mucho mejor que los 2/3 de la convención, que mira lo que dejó: una propuesta constitucional que expresó más identidades que una visión de país.
Eso no estuvo ni en la constitución de 1833, 1925 y menos en la de 1980.
Es cierto que en el 4 de septiembre también se expresó un cierto sustrato racista de la sociedad chilena, que también permea a lo que Gabriel Salazar llama “el bajo pueblo”, al que no le gusta lo mapuche, aunque todos los estudios, desde 1960 en adelante, han demostrado que más del 90% de nuestra población tiene genes de pueblos originarios.
¿Cuál sería el desafío del progresismo en esta instancia?
Alcanzar los 3/5 de los elegidos y ganar el estado social y democrático de derechos. Recuerda que aquí hubo una discusión muy interesante entre los senadores designados Edgardo Boeninger y Enrique Silva Cimma. El concepto lo puso el senador radical y se opuso tenazmente el DC, que era pronorteamericano en casi todo. Recuerda tú que ese concepto quedó impreso en la constitución alemana de posguerra, que introduce el concepto de la subordinación de los medios de producción al interés social de la nación.
El gran debate en torno a la próxima constitución es mantener ese progreso que instaló la Convención y que la derecha intentará distorsionar y minimizar en el transcurso del debate. Hoy se puede armar un acuerdo de 3/5 en torno a defender ese precepto y dotarla de sentido nacional y popular. Lo que precisamente no ocurrió con la plurinacionalidad.
El estado social y democrático de derechos implica que en el nuevo entramado constitucional la propiedad debe estar orientada al interés social y que exista igualdad en esa sociedad. La derecha empleará todos sus medios para desvirtuar su sentido y hay que estar alerta en ello y no volver a equivocarse.
Para la gente que se identifica con la izquierda será muy difícil poder explicar por qué se niega a jugar en una cancha que se puede nivelar con los 3/5.
Es cierto que está eso de los 50 “expertos” y que hay una distorsión en la elección, que tiene la misma dificultad del Senado –la distorsión del voto, ya que el sufragio de un aysenino vale 28 veces más que un votante metropolitano, ellos eligen 2 convencionales, en tanto Santiago solo 5-, pero es una cancha donde se le puede ganar a la derecha.
Argumentos para rechazar seguramente habrá cien, pero lo importante es que el plebiscito puede emparejar la cancha. Ese dilema y discusión estuvo en el Congreso, lo tuvo el Frevs y Flavia Torrealba expresó sus dudas, lo mismo que el senador Esteban Velásquez, aunque finalmente lo firmaron.
Desplazar a la oligarquía del poder central
¿Cuál sería tu invitación a la gente de izquierda que tiene dudas sobre su participación en ese plebiscito?
Que no nos olvidemos que en la elección parlamentaria de 2021 la derecha empató el Senado y con el PDG ocurre lo mismo en la cámara; que hay un partido con representación parlamentaria, el Republicano, que es de claro corte fascista; que hay un señor Kast que ganó la primera vuelta y alcanzó el 45% en segunda, a pesar de su discurso autoritario; que venimos saliendo de una derrota terrible el pasado 4 de septiembre, cuando nos ganó una oligarquía poderosa, que algunos creyeron muerta ensimismados en sus afanes generacionales.
La izquierda a veces olvida que hay 5 millones de chilenos y chilenas que dependen directa o indirectamente de un patrón o gerente, que todos los días les recuerdan cómo deben comportarse y que con frecuencia los amenazan con perder el trabajo. En tanto, una parte de esa izquierda estaba más preocupada de la autonomía alimentaria que del interés general de la sociedad.
Nuestro problema hoy es que ese poder oligárquico salió fortalecido el 4 de septiembre. Nuestro dilema es mantener ese poder oligárquico o avanzar hacia nuevos objetivos, como lograr el estado social y democrático de derecho en la nueva constitución.
Y ojo, tenemos el desafío de hacer retroceder a la oligarquía para lograr este objetivo.
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