El pasado lunes 11 de julio, la editorial Cuarto Propio lanzó el libro Humanidades al límite: posiciones en contra de la universidad global de María Rosa Olivera-Williams, profesora de literatura en la universidad norteamericana de Notre Dame, y Cristián Opazo, profesor en la facultad de letras de la Pontificia Universidad Católica. El Regionalista estuvo en dicho lanzamiento y tuvimos la oportunidad de conversar con Cristián Opazo, quien, además, será protagonista de un Diálogo Regionalista la próxima semana. A continuación, nuestra conversación.
A.C. Mercado-Harvey
Cuéntame sobre la génesis del libro.
Este libro surgió poco antes del estallido social, por una coyuntura que tenía que ver con algo básico e inquietante que era para qué estamos formando a las personas que ingresan a programas de humanidades, tanto en pre y posgrado, y cómo respondemos nosotros a ello. Una cuestión que nos rondaba mucho era que tenemos gente que se la juega en las humanidades en una época que parece poco productivo. Somos depositarios de esa confianza y estaba la pregunta, ¿para qué estamos preparando a estas personas? ¿De qué manera estamos usando el espacio del aula para que estas personas adquieran nuevas herramientas? Y, en corto, ¿qué estamos haciendo nosotros en la práctica para poder hacer del aula un espacio de transformación? En torno a esa pregunta decidimos hacer un libro, no sabíamos si tendríamos financiamiento, pero teníamos tesistas y colegas en la misma tecla que nosotros. Pensamos que no nos podíamos sentar a esperar que nos dieran un espacio formal y lo que hicimos fue un curso. Lo concebimos como un grupo de conversación, entre personas que estamos en las humanidades, en universidades católicas, con desafíos más o menos comunes, tal vez, con desigualdades presupuestarias. En esa época, yo estaba en la dirección de investigación de posgrado y teníamos todo el desafío de generar condiciones económicas, de becas que dignificaran el trabajo de las personas que confiaron en nuestro programa. Una investigadora norteamericana estudiaba la educación penitenciaria en Chile, teníamos una traductora de origen colombiano, que trabajaba con comunidades vulnerables. El primer impulso fue compartir estrategias comunes y, después, el libro fue compartir estos diálogos. La idea era generar una memoria sobre la experiencia que fueron esos diálogos. Por eso, la estructura del libro trató de dejar tres sensibilidades de los que participaron en esto. La primera sección del libro es discutir políticas universitarias, la segunda era cómo la enseñanza de la literatura puede ayudar en estos temas, que tenía que ver con desnudarla de la hiperteorización, qué y cómo se leyó, las preguntas básicas del comentario literario más genuino; la tercera, era la mirada desde adentro, la autocrítica de qué hacen las instituciones en las que trabajamos, que en este caso son universidades católicas. No queríamos aparecer en un libro presentándonos como activistas o disimular nuestro lugar de enunciación, porque no queríamos desdibujar nuestro lugar de privilegio y que eso quedara claro. En una frase la génesis del libro fue: juntarnos para conversar sobre estos temas con altura ética en relación a la confianza que nos entregan quienes entran en nuestros programas de estudio, y cómo podemos responder a esa confianza.
Voy a citar una frase que ustedes usan de Ángel Rama en relación a ser disidentes. Ustedes tienen claro su situación de privilegio, ¿cómo lo ven?
Mirando el proceso de las conversaciones que se dieron, llegamos a conclusiones que nos rondaban y el sentir común era de personas formadas en Chile, en Colombia, en USA, en Uruguay, etc., era un grupo diverso en procedencia, pero a todos nos producía desconfianza esa gente que se mostraban como infiltrados dentro de la academia, como saboteadores y quisimos establecer una distancia con esa retórica. No quisimos caer en la idea que somos infiltrados en la universidad, porque estamos dentro de ella y nos planteamos tratar de aprender del pasado. Una de las cosas que descubrimos, como grupo, es que la época en que la universidad había sido más efectiva en la construcción de nuestras sociedades, fue cuando los sectores transformadores, disidentes, si se quiere, se habían asumido como lo que eran: profesores y estudiantes universitarios y, desde ese lugar, habían ocupado todo lo que ofrecían sus instituciones. Por ejemplo, en el caso chileno, fue la gente de los teatros universitarios en Antofagasta, Concepción, la Chile y la Católica, donde había gente como Pedro de la Barra, en el pedagógico, que tenía una línea disidente en relación a cómo se hacían las cosas en esa época en materia de arte, pero en ningún caso se definía como disidente o infiltrado, sino como alguien que ocupa su lugar para modificar un programa curricular.
No nos quedemos en el discurso de “qué mal están las humanidades” y asumamos cargos de gestión, no nos escondamos detrás de la pared, ocupemos posiciones transformadoras. Si queríamos llevarlo a la práctica, implicaba volver a tener conciencia de mirar el trabajo en el aula y de gestión. No vamos a transformar la universidad si no transformamos el aula. Eso es un mensaje que queríamos pasar a las nuevas generaciones: incorpórense a las discusiones en sus instituciones académicas, ocupen cargos de gestión, ocupen esos espacios de manera responsable y activa.
Me llamó la atención, mirando el índice del libro, que ustedes están preocupados desde la perspectiva académica, del discurso, pero no hablan de la crisis desde el mercado. Hay una crisis que lleva mucho tiempo y no hay trabajo. Hay una elevación de las carreras en ciencia y tecnología, los STEM. Entonces, ¿para qué seguimos formando doctores en humanidades cuando no hay puestos? ¿Por qué ustedes no abordaron ese aspecto concreto de que no hay trabajo en carreras de humanidades?
Creo que no quisimos darle un lugar concreto, como una de las tres unidades, pero procuramos que apareciera en 2 momentos o esa era la intención. Nuestra apuesta, en el ensayo que escribí yo, fue plantear ahí la discusión acerca de la manera en que se nos imponen ciertos modelos de desenvolvimiento y que esos modelos también van mutando. Quisimos decir, ojo, muchos nos quejamos de esa imposición del discurso científico, en su minuto, pero que no bastaba con quedarse ahí, porque en el día de hoy hay un discurso que va apareciendo mucho más fuerte que el científico de generar papers, que es el de generar capital adicional y plegarnos a las industrias creativas y ese tipo de discusión. Tuvo que ver con decir, estamos en una crisis laboral, en que se nos restringe lo que solía ser nuestro oficio, pero, ojo con pensar que seguimos en la tecla en que se nos obligaba a ser científicos.
Cuando partimos este grupo de discusión teníamos conciencia de que no hay trabajo y los que estamos adentro y desde allí hacer cambios. Frente a la ausencia de plazas, ¿qué hacemos? La conclusión fue seamos astutos, porque hay un cambio de paradigma y lo que se les pide a las universidades va cambiando demasiado rápido, eso fue lo primero. Lo segundo, como eso muta rápido, tratemos de iluminar dónde tenemos un decir y gracias por tu pregunta, que es súper iluminadora, del análisis de cómo fue nuestro proceso. Me hiciste pensar con tu pregunta que cuando partimos este grupo de discusión estábamos tan conscientes de que no hay trabajo y que el mercado ha mutado que fue una reacción casi deliberada y la reflexión de qué hacemos los que tenemos la suerte de estar adentro y es asumir los costos de gestión, tratar de cambiar las mallas curriculares, cambiarles la cara a los pregrados.
En Estados Unidos existe un incentivo perverso de los profesores titulares para mantener el sistema como está en los doctorados, porque los estudiantes de posgrado son los que enseñan los cursos de lengua para que los profesores titulares puedan enseñar literatura. Eso no ocurre en el caso chileno, ¿cierto?
Es muy interesante esa vuelta, porque hemos abierto los doctorados y hacemos lo opuesto: no los hemos incorporado a la estructura. La situación es diferente a las universidades norteamericanas, porque nuestros doctorandos no son incorporados a la docencia de pregrado, no son los fusibles educativos de la enseñanza de la lengua, que es lo que ocurre en USA. Dicho eso, ese diagnóstico comparativo, eso no nos exime del problema, sino que lo vemos desde otro lado. Tenemos una gran responsabilidad el día de hoy que tiene que ver con demostrarle a la sociedad la utilidad de nuestras personas graduadas con el grado de doctor en literatura o disciplinas a fines. Y eso hay que hacerlo de dos formas: desde dentro de la universidad, incorporándolos de un modo más activo a tareas de docencia y administración. Tenemos talentos en la universidad, que en su paso no están dejando toda la huella que podrían, puesto que no tenemos los mecanismos para escuchar esas voces de paso y formación, y de ese desafío viene esto de que recibimos esos talentos y no generamos canales suficientes para valorarlos. Entonces, ¿cómo le pedimos a la empresa que los incorpore si nosotros no los incorporamos en la universidad? Por otro lado, tenemos un tremendo desafío en nuestros seminarios de especialidad: debiéramos empezar a desplazarnos, mostrar oficios, registros y recursos propios de nuestro saber para que esas personas puedan tener inserción y tenemos el deber de prepararlos a la realidad laboral. Lo que se esconde detrás de esto es renunciar a ser testigo de la crisis y ser activos. Para cambiar el curso de la crisis es imperativo en nuestro quehacer. Eso va a ser clave, por ahí lo enfocaría.
Hoy en día todo los papers académicos los leen pocas personas y lo que importa es el trabajo en el aula, eso y no un paper le puede cambiar la vida a un alumno. ¿No te parece?
Estoy completamente de acuerdo. Hago eco de lo que dices. Por un lado, tenemos estudiantados cada vez más diversos, y no podemos vanagloriarnos de la diversidad de ese estudiantado si no les entregamos diversas posibilidades formativas y metodológicas que le permitan poner en valor esa diversidad. No saco nada con ampliar la diversidad de entrada si no la cultivo, si no la fortalezco y potencio dentro del aula. Por ejemplo, si le enseño a un estudiante a escribir papers en un solo formato, de acuerdo a una determinada academia y centro geopolítico anglo-estadounidense, me estoy farreando la posibilidad de cambio. Estoy preparando a esa persona solo para papers laborales y no en otro formato, como la edición, por ejemplo.
Pasan cosas absurdas, acá en O´Higgins tenemos una universidad nueva, como en Magallanes, y se pensó que eso generaría nuevos puestos de trabajo y al final es la misma gente de la universidad Chile que se instaló acá. Como si acá no hubiera profesionales universitarios con buen currículum.
Esas son las discusiones y, por ejemplo, los colegas que trabajan con pueblos originarios, se arman centros, aparecen discursos universitarios. Pero de los que se involucran en esos discursos, ¿cuántos pertenecen a esas comunidades? Los que poseen esas credenciales, provienen de esos pueblos indígenas terminan dando los cursos de lengua y no tienen plazas permanentes, sino que como profesionales adjuntos.
Entonces, ¿qué podemos hacer nosotros? El ensayo de Luis Bravo, profesor uruguayo, que volvió al Instituto Artigas que forma profesores. Ahí cuenta la historia de un intelectual uruguayo, Ibero Gutiérrez, poeta adolescente, asesinado en dictadura y como este poeta encornó una utopía y cómo lo logró y documenta cómo los profesores de la universidad bajaron a enseñar en secundaria y que estos profesores tuvieran esa doble militancia. Me parece una figura muy potente. No hay que olvidar los otros niveles educativos. Es una relación de cercanía que no se debe perder. Luis Bravo cuenta cómo esos profesores universitarios iban a enseñar en las escuelas públicas, tampoco era con costo cero, que esos profesores también tomaban un riesgo, esos profesores buscaron mecanismos transgresores para insertarse en las escuelas. Ellos lo hicieron de ese modo y funcionó y la pregunta que nos cabe es cómo lo vamos a hacer nosotros. Por otro lado, lo que desarrolla Catherine Brix sobre la educación carcelaria. Eso nos habla de la responsabilidad ética, hacer un seguimiento, qué horizonte tiene esa persona. Son trabajos y miradas que nos invitan a reflexionar, con la agudeza y el compromiso de mirar a largo plazo.
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